vol 192. 12/9/2019 (Sebastiaan)

SPEAKER_01 0:01 We believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members. Everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest.

SPEAKER_00 0:26 Hi, my name is Sebastian and I'm an alcoholic. Grateful to be sober and grateful to be able to uh be of service right now and uh share my message. I guess um I'll go ahead and start off with what it was like. I was born and raised in Long Beach, California.

I was um a pretty decent kid, I'd like to think, growing up. I had uh two parents who I think did their absolute best to uh raise me and do everything right that they possibly could. I think obviously hindsight's 2020, but I think I had an amazing childhood. I don't know, nothing really ever seemed to be um uh out of place or wrong in any way for me.

When I was about, I want to say when I was 14, I had my uh first drink ever, and about six months after that, I had my first uh drunk ever. The first drink I ever had, I remember, um, I was home alone and I drank uh half of the Blue Moon beer. And I remember drinking about half of it and thinking this is the worst tasting thing in the world. I remember thinking, you know, like how is it that all my uncles drink this and you know, all these like stories I've heard about getting drunk and drinking and how amazing it is, and I was like, this is definitely not it, you know, this is uh not that fun at all.

It smells like a skunk, and uh I don't feel anything good about it. And I remember pouring out the rest and shoving it at the bottom of the trash can so that way uh if my mom ever uh took out the trash or anything, she wouldn't see the bottle laying at the top. And I was like, well, that's it, never gonna drink again, I guess. And then about a couple of months later, similar situation, I was home alone, and I remember um thinking, you know what, I think I know what I did wrong that first time.

I didn't drink the right ooze. Um, so I went into my mom's uh bar that she had at the time, and uh went in there and I found a bottle of whiskey, and I poured myself eight shots and I uh chased it all with the Capri Sun because I was 14 and I got really drunk, and I remember that night being really fun for about an hour or two, and I remember playing music really loud in my room and dancing around with my old dog, just having a blast, and then I remember throwing up everywhere, and that was it. That was my first drunk ever. I don't think it ever really got any better after that, to be honest with you.

Um I think every other time I ever got drunk or high after that, it was absolutely uh horrible, and uh it would only get worse and worse. After that time, I uh remember thinking that, you know, I hadn't like finally, you know, arrived. I like had figured out the meaning to life, and it was to get drunk. That was it, and that's all I really ever wanted to do, and all my focuses from school to sports and video games and everything else that 14-year-old kids like to do went out the window, and I put a hundred percent effort into getting loaded from that day forward.

I remember um going on to like different internet forums at the time to try to figure out what booze was better, what pill was better, and all that stuff. And I remember trying out different kinds of pills that I would find in my medicine cabinet in order to enhance that feeling that I felt from that first drug. And I remember finding um some painkillers, and I remember thinking how amazing it was that I could get pretty much all the same effects that I got from alcohol, but I wouldn't smell like alcohol, and so I could get away with it a lot easier, and I wouldn't have to worry about having to brush my teeth three times before going downstairs and saying hi to my mom or anything like that, and I could just take the couple pills and wait about 30 minutes, and then I would be, you know, as you know, I'd be peachy keen. Um and things just steadily progressed from that day forward.

You know, I uh I ended up starting to do a lot of opiates and pills when I uh would run out of them or didn't have any um anymore, I would go back to drinking. That was always kind of like my fallback option, my last resort. And uh eventually got to a point where uh I couldn't really um find any more pills anymore, and I didn't want to do that anymore, and I wanted to try something different, and I had been reading up on all these different internet forums online and stuff about what else I could use, and I found out that cocaine was uh supposed to be a good time and fun. And I remember I had a friend in high school who um said he could hook it up or whatever, and I asked him, and that started a whole new chapter in my life, and um I started doing cocaine on an almost a daily basis.

I still to this day have no idea how I could afford it, um, because I was a teenager in high school and I didn't have a job or really any money at all. And I honest to God, you know, I did very little uh stealing, so I really have no idea, you know, that self-will really got to uh extreme lengths when it was for uh anything I wanted. I started um doing cocaine pretty much on a daily basis, mixing it with opiates, doing any kind of booze that I could find around the house anymore. Luckily for me, neither of my parents were very big drinkers.

Um, but they always had alcohol in the house, so I was always able to um drink and get away with it, and they would never really notice. At least I thought they never really noticed, or maybe they were in denial. I really don't know, but it was very easy for me. And for uh pretty much two years straight, from when I was about 15 to 17, I uh drank and got high on a daily basis, and uh I remember I would wake up and I would, you know, do a line of cocaine, or I would drink some booze or whatever, and then I would, you know, go off to school, and that was just my life.

And I remember walking around school, and I remember thinking about all my classmates, and you know, I went to this really big school, you know, there were like 5,000 kids, and I remember thinking, like, man, I'm the only one who like understands life. I am the only one who like has cracked the code. All these you know, nerds are here studying their books and all that and being high school students, but I've got it figured out. I've got drugs and alcohol, and I'm ready to like do this for the rest of my life.

And I didn't want to do anything else for the rest of my life. I was fully committed to being an alcoholic and a drug addict for the rest of my life, and I was uh okay with that. What pretty much ended up happening after that was that when I was 17, I was at the height of uh some video game craze that was going on, and I remember it was the perfect alibi to go out for a nice walk to meet up with my drug dealer. I remember I told my mom one night, I was like, hey, I got a blast, I gotta go play this video game on my phone, and I went to I really just walked down the block of my uh neighborhood, and then my dealer was there and I picked up some uh pills and some cocaine, and I remember I went home and my dealer had not been able to get a hold of any opiates, and uh I had to end up doing some other things, some uh other kinds of pills that I was not used to at all, and I ended up uh overcompensating in that area with the pills, unfortunately, and I ended up overdosing.

And the next three days were a complete blackout for me. I don't remember a single thing. All I remember was um waking up about three days later on my uh mom's couch in her room and not knowing what happened or really what was going on at all. And uh it was the first time in those two years that I had been caught doing drugs and alcohol.

At that point of my life, there were only probably maybe two or three people that knew that I drank and did drugs. It was my older brother who I had done some drinking with in the past, um, my buddy at school who was also my drug dealer, and one other buddy of mine from school. And there was almost a sense of relief when I got caught because I was like, wow, I don't have to like kind of like hide it anymore, you know. I don't have to do any more of that running around and hiding and sneaking around, and it felt good in a sense.

I remember going to uh very shortly after that, going to my first rehab, right before going into the rehab, I was introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous. I had an uncle who took me to my first ever meeting, and it was on a Friday night, and I remember it very vividly. And I remember being incredibly upset because um it was a Friday night and I really wanted to go see my high school football team, and I thought that was much more important than an AA meeting, which uh looking back on it is very funny, and uh um I never even liked football. I still don't like football, so it's even funnier now.

Um I remember uh you know dragging my feet into that meeting and sitting down with my uncle, and I remember they asked if there were any newcomers present, and I stood up or whatever, and I was like, Yeah, Sebastian, alcoholic, and I was like so proud of myself, and I felt like I had been um, you know, uh like I was doing the right thing. And I remember after the meeting, I felt super um super welcomed and like happy, you know. I was like, wow, and like all these people in this meeting understand the way I drink and the way I do drugs, and they don't give me that look of like fear and disdain that I see from other people's when they see the way I do drugs and alcohol. I was like, cool, if this is you know what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life.

I'm just gonna be an AA now and I'm gonna, you know, read the big book and all that stuff, and I'm gonna have a grand old life. Then about two weeks after that, um, I decided I actually wasn't an alcoholic, and that I was actually just uh really anxious, and uh nobody actually understood me, and that I drank the way I drank, and I did drugs the way I did drugs because um I was just a nervous kid and nobody really understood me. And I was backing off drinking and doing drugs, and then I finally was able to be admitted into my first like adolescent um rehab because I was only 17 at the time. I remember uh going in there and I remember being like the star um client there.

You know, they had like a level system there for the for the kids to be like, oh, every week you get a go bumped up a level, and then you get like different access to things, so you can play ping pong longer, or you get to like I don't know, have a longer visit with your family when they come over or whatever. And I remember getting to like level four, which was unheard of and nobody had ever done. And I gotta sign my name on like some weird placard there saying that I got to level four because I was such a good um client in this rehab. And the whole time that I was going there, they would take us to meetings and I remember going to outside meetings and uh not understanding what the program was at all.

And I like thought I did, and looking back on it, I have no idea. I had no idea what Alcoholics Anonymous was. I remember in one of those first meetings, they had these those two big, you know, banners on the wall that uh had the 12 traditions in the 12 steps, and I remember looking at the 12 traditions and I was like, I don't care about that, that doesn't seem important at all. And then I uh then I read the 12 steps and I was going over them and I was like, Yeah, I did step one, yeah, I did step two, yeah.

Yeah, I didn't actually do step three. I kind of did step four. And I thought I had done the steps, and like that's how you were supposed to do the steps by just kind of like, I don't know, experiencing it in life on your own. And it was like a very rude awakening when I got my first sponsor shortly after I left that sober living, or yeah, shortly after I left that uh rehab.

I went to a sober living and I got my first sponsor, and we started working the steps together. And I remember telling him, Oh no, man, I did all these cool like you know, learning packets in that rehab, and I'm already like halfway done through the steps. And he was like, No, man, you're not, you gotta sit down with me and read the book, and we'll do the steps together. We're not, you know, you you haven't done a fifth step at all, you have no idea what that means.

And I was like, No, I, you know, had a therapy session one time and I did a fifth step in there. Um, so it was a very read awakening when I found out that uh none of that was actually step work. I was at that sober living for about, I want to say maybe six months. It was a very high-structured environment, very uh little contact with the outside world.

It was very much like a rehab rather than a sober living. And I remember finally get starting to click in me, I have to do this AA thing, and I don't really have another option. And I don't really have an easy way out. There's no way I'm gonna be able to uh you know ever drink or do drugs the way I want to do those things.

So if it were up to me, um I would do it 24-7, 365 days a week, and I uh finally had under come to a point where I understood that uh I wasn't able to do that. After being at that sober living for about six months, I uh finally decided I had had enough and I didn't like the high-structured environment. And once again, nobody understood me. And uh I was an alcoholic, but I wasn't that bad of an alcoholic.

Um, I can move home now and I can, you know, finish high school. And my both my parents were like, no, you can't move in with us. Um, so I decided to go out on my own and uh sneak off in the middle of the night and uh hang out in the park for a couple days. And I was like, well, you know what?

Since I'm in a park and I'm technically homeless and on the lamb, um, I might as well uh take advantage of this time and uh get loaded. And so I ended up um getting loaded for about three, yeah, about three days, give or take. I was walking around the torrents area smoking map, and then I ended up walking all the way back to Long Beach. It took me like 10 hours or something like that, because I had no idea where to go, and I was kind of just following the sun.

Um, because I was like, well, if the sun, you know, rises in the east and sets in the west, then I gotta wait, you know, and I was trying to like do it like that because I didn't have any kind of map or anything, and uh and I'll never forget the the the last night of that uh debacle. I was um on a riverbed here in Long Beach, and I was hanging out with this dude, and I really, you know, want to get loaded and I need help getting loaded. And he was like, Hey, don't worry, man, I'll help you, you know, and he kind of like took me under his wing or whatever for that one night. And he told me, you know, you have to walk down to this bridge down over here, and you have to ask for this man named D, as in the letter D.

And I was like, okay, for sure. And he's like, Yeah, ask D for a doggy bag and wake me up and then uh come back and meet me over here. I can't go with you, I got a bum leg. And I was like, for sure.

And I remember it being probably, I don't know, one or two in the morning. I haven't showered in whatever, three days or whatever. I smelled horribly already. Um it was not good for me.

I'm not very good at living outside. And I was walking down this bridge, and I never had I never met this man named D. Um, I thought that was very disheartening. Um But what I did, what I do remember meeting was I remember meeting these two gentlemen who were on one of the bridges and they were spray painting on one of them.

And uh, you know, one of the guys shined his flashlight on me and he was like, Who is that? And I responded and I was like, uh, Sebastian. And they were like, who? And I was like, uh, I don't know, Sebastian, that's my name.

And they're like, oh, okay. And uh they're like, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't know, what are you doing? And uh they're like, oh, we're about to smoke.

Do you want some? And you know, I uh remember being very upset because they wouldn't pass me the blunt until the very last uh hit of it, and that was all I got, and I was like, wow, what a waste of an evening um hanging out with these fellas. And uh I remember walking back and just feeling absolutely disheartened and uh confused and lost. And I was like, what am I going to do with my life?

You know, I'm only 19 or something like that. At the time, I was 18 at the time. I'm sorry. I was 18 at the time.

I remember thinking, what am I going to do? I can walk back to my mom's house in the morning. Obviously, I don't really have anything else to do, anywhere else to go. I don't have any money.

Don't really feel like panhandling, don't really feel like uh doing anything else. So I was like, all right, you know what? In the morning, I'm gonna go to my mom's house and I'm going to ask her very politely if I would be allowed into my room, and I was going to grab my uh PlayStation and all my video games, and uh I was gonna go to the GameStop to sell it. That was my big plan.

That's where uh you know my best thinking got me was thinking that after my mom probably thinking I was dead or something to that effect for the last couple of days, that I she would let me come in and you know, she would let her son say, Yeah, um totally go upstairs to your room and grab your PlayStation and all your video games and sell for money so you can keep getting loaded. That's totally fine with me. And so the next morning I woke up and I didn't really wake up. I I I uh I only got like an hour or two sleep last night because I had been doing all those extracurricular activities, but I remember walking down the street towards my mom's house, and I had maybe like an hour or two of a walk left.

And I remember a a kind of uh a BMW that looked really familiar to me pull up beside me, and the window rolled down, and it was my uncle, and he screamed out my name and immediately pulled over and um jumped out of his car and hugged me and cried. Um and just kept saying my name over and over again, and he just kept telling me how he and the rest of the family had thought I had like died or something. Um and the the craziest thing about that was that it wasn't anywhere in Long Beach that any of my family lived or would be at any point. And my uncle had told me that um he was I don't remember if he was going to work or coming from work, but that day he had accidentally and right before he had me seen me, um, he had made three wrong turns on accident, and that's the reason why he was able to like go down that street that I was walking at that same exact time and pull over and uh and get me, you know.

Um it was a really like uh moving experience for me and uh and I wish I really wish I could say I stayed sober after that, and that was like the waking up point for me where I was like that's it, I'm done. I wish I could say that I stayed sober from that day on, but I didn't, you know, I uh I had a couple more drinks in me left and I had to get my story straight. And uh and after that I remember um going home and trying to explain to my mom you know, like I was willing to get sober, but just not at that other sober living that was very highly structured, and I'd go anywhere else. And luckily some other um sober living at the time said, yes, we have an open bed, he can come in right now.

And I was able to go there and I stayed there for about I want to say maybe eight months or so. And I remember at that point in my life not really being uh very mature or understanding uh the depths of what it was going on with me. I still thought I could probably like handle it, and I still ended up relapsing a couple more times after that by lying to myself and saying, you know, oh, I can drink a little bit, you know, on the weekends and I'll be fine. Or, you know, if I just do this weird research chemical um and infuse it into.

Teeth and I'll um be able to get the effects of being loaded, but still keep my sobriety somehow. And none of those ever really worked. And every single time I relapsed and got loaded, it was just as worse as the last time. Every single time I would feel horrible, I would feel super sad.

I would run back to Alcoholics Anonymous and I, you know, introduced myself once again as a newcomer. I, you know, went to countless different meetings as a newcomer and would have to keep on you know taking those freaking newcomer chips, and I hated it. And then came a point where uh I was at that overliving and I'd once again relapsed, and I was like, you know what, I've been in treatment at this point for something to the effect of like, I don't know, I think it was 14 or 15 months total. And I was like, this is not doing me any good.

Um, these, you know, therapy sessions and these mindfulness groups and the uh all those weird, I don't know, music therapy, stuff like that. And I was like, none of this is really helping me at all. I don't think this is actually having any kind of positive effect, especially after how many relapses I've had and how long I've like been in this kind of environment. And so I moved back in with my mom.

I was 19 at the time, and uh I figured that you know, if anything was gonna keep me sober and anything was gonna actually work, it was going to be that I would have to go to Alcoholics Anonymous and give it a fair shot. And uh and I did. I uh I went to a young people's meeting in Long Beach that is still my home group to this day on Sunday nights, and uh introduced myself as a as a newcomer. And I remember about a week or so later, I was like, I need to get a sponsor, and I remember asking my first legitimate sponsor that I had like worked all 12 steps with.

I asked him one day after a meeting, and he was like, Yeah, sure, whatever, um, I'll sponsor you. And uh I like actually worked all 12 steps with him, and I had been able to stay sober for about 14 months um by going to meetings and uh you know going to meetings thinks over working the 12 steps, doing air quotes right now for you guys who are listening. Just looking back on it, I don't think I actually worked the 12 steps at all. I don't think I had an actual connection with my higher power.

I don't think um I did 10, 11, and 12 really at all. And ended up relapsing after 14 months. I thought I had had this thing figured out, and I was like, I'm finally, you know, I was an alcoholic, I'm still an alcoholic, but um, I'm not as much of an alcoholic as I was a year and a half ago. And I don't really have to do any kind of spiritual growth or spiritual development at all.

All I have to do is just go to these meetings and stay sober off the fellowship, and that'll be enough. But it wasn't, you know, I went out once again and uh led into another spiral of relapse and going into Alcoholics Anonymous, and uh, I think it was another like four times that I relapsed after that or something ridiculous. And uh and at this point I'm you know 21 years old. I've been 21 for about a month, and I'm already going to the bars now legally because I haven't been able to do that ever in my life.

And I'm telling my mom that I'm going to these college classes at City College, um, when in reality I'm taking the bus at 7.30 in the morning and going down the street to a bar and drinking and uh and doing cocaine at 7.30, 8 o'clock in the morning. And that's all I would do. That was my that was my entire life. And um it was uh really tiring.

It was really tiring and it was really annoying to be back in that position once again. Was also thinking that the other day, I was cracking up with my sponsor because um because I was talking to him and I was like, I don't understand how I was able, how I was able to ever like buy the amount of cocaine that I constantly bought and the booze and the pills, because I've never really had a real job when I was getting loaded, and I never really stole. And he was like, What was your you know, how did you do it? And then I realized I was like, Oh, I think one of the ways I did it was um I used to like ask my mom for money for like cigarettes, but she like must have known because I'd be like, I need sixty dollars for cigarettes.

I don't think anybody in their right mind thinks cigarettes are sixty dollars, and that'd be enough to get me through the day and get a couple of drinks and a tiny bit of cocaine and whatever else I needed, and maybe some actual cigarettes, and like that was just my life for about like two months. And I remember um one day my brother coming in, and my brother at the time was sober, and I felt absolutely horrible because uh I had taken him to his first meeting, and uh I'd taken him to his first meeting, and he had been sober at that point for maybe about a year or so, and I was uh you know, loaded, and I was still living at home, and I was a complete mess. I'd been wearing the same Birkenstocks, um, shorts and t-shirt for like a month straight, and he knew that I was getting loaded, and he told me and he kind of made an ultimatum with me, and he was like, You have to either move out of mom's place or you gotta get sober, you know, one or the other. So I finally was like, that's it.

And I remember going upstairs into my room and you know, doing the rest of my cocaine and drinking the rest of my beer that I had. And I remember crying for a long time and finally giving up, finally, finally giving up the booze and the and the drugs for the good. And I knew that was gonna be the last time I was gonna get loaded. And it was really, really sad.

Because I really enjoyed getting loaded. Not that I have any reason to be uh to have to like be grateful for anything for any of the any of the times I got loaded, because every time I got loaded it was horrible, it was a nightmare. But my alcoholic insanity told me that it was a really good time for whatever reason. I remember getting up the next day, and I think I had told my mom either that day or the day after, and I went to one or two meetings and called my sponsor again, told him what was going on, and he was like, Yeah, no shit, you were getting loaded.

I know he hadn't called me in like over a month. It's pretty obvious. Um, and uh and I went to this, you know, random 30-day treatment center that I hated with all my guts, and I remember um because my so my sobriety date is uh December 9th, 2019. I'm sorry I should have started off with that, but uh I went into that rehab, I believe December 11th, 2019.

Um, and it was me and two other guys because nobody wanted to get sober around the holidays, especially in Christmas and New Year's, and it was just us for that whole month. The only thing I ever looked forward to when I was there for that month was um was lunch and dinner and the meetings that we would go to at night. Everything else I really didn't care about. And all the groups that I did, I had done so many times before.

There's only so many times I can write that goodbye letter to drugs and alcohol, or there's only so many times I can draw myself as an animal and all those things. And I was like, none of that's gonna help me, none of that's going to cure this malady that I have at the bottom of my heart. The only thing that's gonna do that is going to AAA, going to AA and you know, working the 12 steps with a sponsor and reading the but the big book. That's what I did.

I uh I jumped, I guess feet first. Yeah, I jumped feet first into Alcoholics Anonymous the second I got out of there. I got a really lame get well job that was uh at this Korean restaurant, and it was very it was a very weird time because when I had about three or four months sober, COVID hit, everything had shut down, and I remember standing in that restaurant for like eight hours straight, losing my mind because nobody was coming in to buy anything or to do takeout orders, and I was just standing there. And I also didn't know what to do for meetings because all the meetings were on Zoom at the time, and uh and like Zoom meetings at the time.

I thought they were like subpar somehow. But I remember staying sober, and I remember around six months calling my sponsor, and I told him, and I was like, hey man, I had this really crazy experience. I haven't thought about getting loaded at all today, and I haven't ever done that. I've never experienced that before.

Every other sobriety you've ever had, it's always been like just stay sober today, just stay sober, don't think about drugs, don't think about booze, don't think about anything. Um, you have to have pure thoughts. Come on, Sebastian, get it together. And finally, I uh that the obsession of the mind had been removed from me, and it was insane.

It was it was like a surreal feeling to have. Um, and I never thought I would actually be able to experience that. And I'm super grateful for my sobriety and everything that's given me today, and what I've found out through my countless attempts of at being and getting sober and failures in Alcoholics Anonymous and different random programs that aren't 12-step based at all, and trying religion and every kind of religion there is, is that the only thing that gets me sober is having that spiritual experience that I'm able to come to um through working the 12 steps and reading the big book with a sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I need to have it like a constant spiritual experience.

I I I always think that I'm having a constant spiritual experience because being sober today for me is a spiritual experience, and I'm very grateful for it. I have been able to stay sober now for a little, oh, let's see, I don't know, like three and a half years or something like that. And um my life is completely different than from what it used to be. I have a actual relationship and understanding with my higher power that I'm very grateful for.

I have my family back in my life, you know. My mom isn't fearful of me or where I'm going to, you know, be tonight or anything like that. She trusts me. I have a copy of her key for her house on my carabiner when I go out.

I have such a like I have such peace and serenity in my life that I had never been able to experience before when I was getting loaded or in any of those previous sobrieties. Because my whole life I have been constantly just anxious and depressed and worried, and when I would get loaded and drink and do drugs, it would only make it worse that paranoia would get to very bad extremes. The peace and serenity I have in my life today is probably the best gift that I've gotten in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I always try to think that if you know the only thing that I get out of Alcoholics Anonymous and working the 12 steps, having a sponsor and doing all this work, if the only thing I get out of it is sobriety, that's fucking good enough for me.

Um, that is more than enough for me. It may not be good enough for everybody, but in my own experience and what I want out of this program, it's more than enough for me. Because when I came into Alcoholics Anonymous, the only thing I wanted to do, and the only thing I wanted was to just stop drinking and doing drugs for good. And I've been able to achieve that goal one day at a time for the past like three and a half years.

I uh Yeah, I'm incredibly grateful for my sobriety today. You know, when I first came into Alcoholics Anonymous, I thought it was nothing more than a, you know, like some kind of curse to be a member. I think of it now much more as a blessing and a privilege to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Um I don't think I've ever owed so much to so many different people, and uh for that I am truly grateful.

SPEAKER_01 34:59 Thank you. Thank you, Sebastian. SPEAKER_02 35:02 Thank you. SPEAKER_01 35:05 You have such a calm pace about your storytelling.

You reminded me of my son, and I think if I did my math correctly, you're about 25 or 26. SPEAKER_00 35:18 24, yeah. SPEAKER_01 35:19 24. Okay.

So you've done a lot in in a short period of time. SPEAKER_00 35:26 Yes, definitely. Um I've done quite a lot. SPEAKER_01 35:31 You're 24, which means probably I don't want to say kids your age, which is probably really offensive, makes me an old lady.

Um, young men your age and women probably have a lot of drinking in their activities and and what they what they're doing at that age. Do you find that you're hanging out with mostly people in the rooms, or how do you navigate that? SPEAKER_00 35:59 Yeah, I think I'm I'm very grateful for my circumstances in that uh when I uh originally like started that my journey in sobriety when I was 17, um, I I had no friends really at all. Everybody kind of hated me.

And so uh everybody in my life today, except for maybe like two people, are either members of Alcoholics Anonymous or uh my family. And I've never had a problem with that. I love hanging out with uh you know people in the rooms after a meeting, fellowship, just you know, not going to meetings, just hanging out with them, you know. My girlfriend's an AA, my brother's in Alcoholics Anonymous, my uncle.

So I don't mind just having friends, I guess, in Alcoholics Anonymous at all. SPEAKER_01 36:44 So it's a non-issue. SPEAKER_00 36:46 No, definitely not an issue at all. SPEAKER_01 36:48 So your uncle and your brother, and your brother for listeners, um, is episode by the time everyone listens to this, he'll have already posted he was episode 184, and you guys live together.

Do you all meeting together, you and your uncle and your brother, and maybe other family members? SPEAKER_00 37:08 You know, my brother and I, we go to a couple meetings together a week, and we have a super great relationship. We're also great roommates because we live together for like, I don't know, like 20 years before we uh went our separate ways, and now we're back together, living together. My uncle, I don't go to many, very, very many meetings with him, but we do talk about alcoholics anonymous anytime we do talk and stuff like that.

And I know for a time I did uh have a book study here in my apartment with my brother, which we had a couple probably like six or seven people show up to every week. It was very nice. SPEAKER_01 37:49 You you seem so much older than 24 and wise. You have you said this malady at the bottom of my heart when you were talking about wanting meetings and the program and the steps.

Can you say more about the malady at the bottom of of your heart and how the program heals that? SPEAKER_00 38:23 Yeah, of course. Um I think I I think I when I was uh getting loaded and uh maybe even before that, I had lost something and I had gone down this deep spiral, which you know I never had felt fulfilled in any way, and I always felt less than and all that. And one thing that I've been able to get in Alcoholics Anonymous is a relationship with my higher power, which I think has been honestly the solution to all my problems today.

You know, when I am stressed, nervous, anxious, depressed, whatever it may be today, I know that I uh have a higher power looking out for me. And I think that's what's been able to heal that kind of pain and suffering that I find that uh that I had there in my heart. Like I said, the peace and serenity I have today is uh something that I've never experienced before, nor did I ever think that I would be able to get it to experience it. SPEAKER_01 39:29 When you were a young kid, you were on campus and you're high and you're thinking, I'm the one that cracked the code looking around at all the other students.

And you fast forward to today where you're coming up on four years of sobriety in about I don't know, six weeks or something. Do you feel like you could have cracked the code with a higher power before you touched drugs and alcohol? SPEAKER_00 40:07 Oh yeah, um, definitely. This is actually something I talk about a lot now because um sometimes when I'm at work or out in public or something like that, you know, I look around and I see all these people and I'm like, man, none of these people haven't figured out.

They don't understand that I've got Alcoholics Anonymous and I've cracked the code. And uh and I think it's so funny that I think that way now. Um because I used to think the same thing about drugs and alcohol when I was a kid, and now I'm like, man, I'm so fulfilled and happy with life now. Um now that I've got Alcoholics Anonymous and a higher power of my own understanding.

Um I don't understand how anybody else can go throughout go through life without those things. Just like I have no idea how anybody was able to get through high school without drugs and alcohol. SPEAKER_01 41:01 Touche. So for six months at the end there, you were end of 2019, beginning of 2020, you had the obsession, it sounds like every single day, and around six months you realized that the obsession was not there.

The thought, the you were managing, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you were having trouble with your thoughts and your desires for the first six months. Is that accurate? Yes. And why do you think you didn't give in or or what what happened for the for all those relapses?

Why why did it what happened differently this time? SPEAKER_00 41:54 I think I got to a point where I truly did not want to drink or do drugs ever again. And I think in the past I had said that, but in the back of my mind there had always been some kind of reservation, like, eh, well, I don't know, maybe in 10 years I can drink again or you know, do something else. Or if I win the lotto, then I can definitely drink.

Um, I think I had finally gotten to a point where I was like, no, I I just never want to drink again, even if I'm given the opportunity and I can get away with it, or I'll be financially secure. If even if I drink, I just don't want to do it anymore. So I think that was uh what was really different for me in the sobriety and what uh eventually led to me kind of getting rid of that uh obsession and being able to stay sober now. SPEAKER_01 42:46 You touched a chord with me when you were talking about that last time you went up to your room and used and drank the rest of what you had, and it was sad, but it was so miserable, but it was so sad at the same time.

Miserable because the whole process was so miserable. Doing it was so miserable, but like at that's the insanity of disease that we are obsessed with this thing that is not even enjoyable anymore. SPEAKER_00 43:14 Yeah. Yeah, I think uh I think it was a very uh difficult moment for me to uh to finally understand that I'm like done and I'm truly done.

And some this thing that had controlled my life and you know been so I guess comfortable um for so long I no longer was able to ever do it again. SPEAKER_01 43:42 A couple more questions. For your constant spiritual experience, what does that look like on a day-to-day basis? SPEAKER_00 43:54 Um I mean, I guess on the on a day to day basis, kind of like I do, I guess, for my program on a day-to-day basis.

I wake up, I pray, I do the third step prayer, the seventh step prayer, the serenity prayer, and then I do a little freestyle prayer after that. Then I usually try to read the daily reflections on my app. I have three different people that I send it to every day. And then sometimes my sponsor sends it to me.

Then after that, I I don't know. I just go to work or I go to school or whatever it is I'm doing for that day. And I try to um I try to really keep in the forefront of my mind um that I am like the only big book that a lot of people are ever going to be able to meet in the world. Um, and I need to make sure that I am practicing this program at 100% constantly.

I cannot have like a moment of uh weakness or whatever and be like, you know what, I'm just gonna be like a horrible person and uh for the next 20 minutes, and that's gonna be okay. Um I work in a very customer service related job, which has its challenges with customers, and I um and I know for a fact that in those moments that my only job, even in even though I'm getting paid for it, um, is to just be of service. I just have to be of service constantly. And uh another way I really like to think about my life today and what helps me stay God-centered rather than self-centered, is um understanding that I like definitely should be dead and uh that I have you know like a new lease on life and I have a second chance at life, and it is only because of my higher power in Alcoholics Anonymous that I'm able to have a job and be alive and like walk around and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:48 Your gratitude is admirable. Thank you. I just came to get sober. My goal was to stop using and drinking, and and I'm over here thinking, um, can I have some more promises?

I don't feel like I've gotten enough yet. Is there anything in your story that you left out or that you're thinking of now that you would like to share? SPEAKER_00 46:10 Um I think the only thing I think I don't know if anybody wants to know my story more in depth, they're more than welcome to call me or something. I can talk for hours on everything that story.

I know I I touched briefly on a story about when I was on the riverbed. Um, I have like an hour-long story version of that story with many more details and characters um because it was a very strange night. And I also hadn't slept for like two or three nights at that point, but I try to cut it down because I was limited on time. But honestly, I I'm just I really try to just stay grateful and God-centered on a daily basis, and that's the one thing that's been able to that's really helped me stay sober every single day, day by day.

SPEAKER_01 47:03 Final question for the alcoholic out there listening, still suffering. What final message would you like to leave them with? SPEAKER_00 47:12 Oh, Jesus, putting me on the spot. SPEAKER_01 47:14 Um take your time.

SPEAKER_00 47:20 Just keep coming back until leave until the miracle happens. And uh, what I've what I've learned is that the miracle is that whether or not I'm sober, as long as I'm alive, there's a there's a miracle right there. SPEAKER_01 47:32 For more information, read the first 164 pages of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or visit keepcomingback.net