vol 282. Full-time Job with Jeff K.

SPEAKER_00 0:01 We believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members, and everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest. SPEAKER_01 0:26 My name is Jeff Kay.

I'm an alcoholic. My sobriety date is August 9th, 2023. And I have a sponsor, home group. You know, the the word home group is kind of funny to me.

I I do a routine where I go to about four to five meetings a week consistently. So it's kind of hard to say which one is my home group because I feel involved in all of them. But, anyways, born and raised in Orange County, California, two really loving parents. And I don't I don't really have anything in my childhood that would point to me becoming an alcoholic.

My parents hardly ever drank and still hardly ever drink. They probably drink less now that I am an alcoholic, that they know that. But yeah, I I had a very typical middle class life, school, friends. Yeah, I always look back when I'm thinking about sharing and trying to point out details or events in my childhood or even later childhood, and as I go through school and junior high, and nothing really points to me becoming an alcoholic.

So from that, I I really think that I I was just kind of born an alcoholic and just the way my mind works, that I I overthink and complicate things, and just kind of the way my mind works. I'm I'm very analytical. I I really like science and math and English and arts are kind of my my lesser enjoyed school subjects, I'll just say that. And so going through school, I was I worked hard and I was I was pretty smart, but I didn't really fit in.

I was always kind of the fringe kind of person where I was was just kind of goofing off in class and I didn't really fit in with other people. I always kind of did my own thing. So going through school and then junior high, I struggled to fit in, but I I had friends, and I still have those some of those same friends from elementary school, but you know, we're always kind of nerdy, outcast type, and going into high school, things start to change, people act differently, and I was still kind of the same. I I was kind of a late bloomer in that sense uh with with puberty.

I just I was very short and kind of chubby going into even like junior year of high school, and again, I just kind of struggled to fit in uh socially. I did sports and um I I had friends again, but yeah, I just always kind of felt emotionally detached from people. And I think once I got to college and was able to kind of separate myself physically from my parents and other social norms and and kind of got away into quote unquote the real world. That's when I started drinking.

I didn't start drinking until I was in college. Just kind of the way my home life was. My parents were pretty protective. So in high school, I didn't go out on the weekends, I didn't go to parties or anything.

I just stayed home in my room and played video games or watched watched TV or whatever. I didn't go out at all. So once I got to college and I was kind of let free, that's when I really started drinking and I was very hesitant. I because I'm very analytical, I I did think of the consequences at first.

I was very like, what is this gonna do? How is this gonna affect me? But once I started drinking, I did not care because I'm an alcoholic, and once I had that first drink, it was off to the races. And I loved the effects right away.

I loved how it made me feel. And think that something was wrong. So when I drank, I didn't care and I could forget about all that. So yeah, I loved the effects of alcohol, how it made me forget about all that.

So I was in college and this started happening, and of course, it was it became very difficult to balance school and drinking because that's all I wanted to do. I didn't want to study and fill my head with knowledge. It was it became like a task, but I did still enjoy it, and I made it through college. I I was really struggling my senior year.

I was almost starting to get worried about not graduating because my grades had been slipping so much, but I did make it. I was able to get a job. That was just kind of my goal. I knew at that point I wasn't gonna go on any further, despite what my parents had kind of hoped for me.

I got a job about a month after college, which made me feel really good. It made me feel accomplished. Like, okay, I can do this, I can balance my drinking and and hanging out with friends, and still got my education and get a job. So I started working and I kind of felt like okay, I'm set.

Like, this is the quote unquote regular adult life where I would go to work and come home and I would hang out with my friends because I I moved back in with my parents right after college. And most of my friends from high school and some even from college, they still lived in the city where I grew up. So I was able to still see them and and hold those connections. So uh once I got that job and started working, I it was just almost every day, at least a few times a week, where it would just be work, come home, go out and start drinking.

And I'm a blackout drinker, so it was really just as soon as I get that first drink, it's it's really just two, three, four more, and then the rest of the night is kind of a blur, and I really just don't know what happened most nights. So it was a real tough stretch of my life. That was right when I had turned 21, 22, where I was maintaining my job somehow. I would go to work hung over or still drunk a lot of days, just kind of managed to get through the day, and then kind of tell myself, like, oh I'll take it easy tonight.

I won't, I won't go as hard. And but I I couldn't help myself once I once I got out and had that first drink. It was just there was just no holes, you know, no hold bar. I would just go for it.

So yeah, this was several years as I was getting older. I I I had this expectation on myself of having that normal suburban life that I need to get a a wife, start having kids, you know, all that kind of those next steps in my life. And so I was like, okay, I need to get in a relationship, and that's a big hurdle for me because I was drinking so much, it was hard to maintain relationships, uh especially with people who didn't drink as much as me, which is a lot of people. It was hard for them to kind of to see me drink so much.

Uh but I was I'd been in a few relationships and it it wasn't easy. I always just turned to drinking every time something seemed a little bit wrong. You know, I I didn't like to give myself excuses to drink, but because I'm an alcoholic, now I realize that's all I did. I just I love to use any little excuse to turn and just be like, well, I'm gonna go drink about this.

Even if I wouldn't say it out loud like that, in my head, my my brain would make rational sense of that and just say, like, this is a good reason. You can do that. It's okay to drink out, you know, because of that, because of what she said. It is like terrifying to me to think that that's how I acted.

I was really like emotionally stunned from the age of 21 to like 28, 29, uh, which is like about when I got sober. Those years are like really such a blur uh emotionally. I was in relationships, and you know, of course, none of them lasted longer than six months to a year, um, except for one that I'll I'll get to at towards the end. But yeah, I just I really had this like perception of myself that I was this this big adult man that could drink.

And you know, because I could drink so much, I was I was emotionally and like physically strong. And it's such a lie that I would tell myself, oh, I cannot drink people, so I'm a you know, I'm a grown-up and all this. And it was just looking back, it's like that's not how that works at all. Like that's that's terrible.

I had no like emotional intelligence. I was so immature, and the drinking obviously did not help that because I gave myself no room to grow. The drinking really just kind of stunned me, and like it it held me back from getting any sense of emotional awareness or growth. I was so wrapped in my own head, and I think that's alcoholism, is just so being so wrapped up in myself that I didn't care what other people did or said to a point of anything you said would make me drink if it was positive or negative.

If it was positive, hey, that's awesome, let's go celebrate. If it's negative, well, I don't want to talk to you, I'm gonna go drink about it. So I just I had this sense of or lack of sense of awareness and and perception of what was really important. Yeah, so my mid-20s was just it was really such a blur to me.

I look back, I I'll go back every once in a while and look through pictures, and people will tell me about things that happened, and I I really just have a a hard time remembering a lot of those years. Uh yeah, it's just it's a it's a struggle because I know relationships were tarnished, especially with my parents, because I was living at home most of these years. I feel like I hid it pretty well from them because I was just out and about. But but but I know they could see it.

So once COVID hit in 2020, and I was forced to, you know, kind of stay in, they started seeing it more and more. And as as much of as much of what they saw and how aware they were, I think they just didn't want to believe that I was an alcoholic, the same way I didn't want to believe I was an alcoholic. Around that time is when I I think I really knew that I had a problem with alcohol, that I was drinking much more. And because it was in the home and not at a bar or somewhere outside where you know you just kind of drink, and then it's you're in an environment with other people.

Because it was just me sitting there uh in my room, it was just a lot more visible, and um the amount was was becoming more and more aware of how much, and really the there was no reason behind it. And that was that was what got kind of scary in a way, was I was just drinking to drink because there was nothing else to do. I felt like I had I had no other form of um letting my emotions kind of go. And I think this is this is kind of where I started to realize looking back that I just kind of lost my sense of self and kind of just kind of was lost in a in the sense of not knowing my purpose and almost giving up because my alcoholism just kind of said, you don't need to do anything, you can just sit here and drink and you'll be fine.

And again, that was just obviously a huge lie that I that I told myself that in a way drinking was comforting me, but it was also keeping me from growing. So yeah, COVID was real was real rough, and I I don't want to do a drunk log, but even during COVID by myself, there are plenty of bad stories of just me going completely off the rails and just not having a good time. So once COVID ended, or not ended, but you know, once restrictions were lifted and I was able to go out again with friends, my drinking habits had gotten worse, even worse than they were, which is uh, you know, somehow possible. I think that's when my friends really started noticing a difference.

And um, other people started noticing, like my some other people in my family, they started noticing that I was drinking even more than I had been, which was already a lot. And I was in a relationship at this time, and this was a longer-term relationship that it had somehow lasted through COVID. Um, because we couldn't, I think because we couldn't see each other, that made it a little easier for me to hide the drinking from her. Because we could just talk her FaceTime that even if I was drunk, she couldn't tell how much I had been drinking, so I was able to hide it a little more.

But we decided to move in with each other, and we got an apartment. Of course, this is when it becomes very obvious to someone that I'm actually living with how much I'm drinking and how often I'm drinking, and how my emotional state and my just overall well-being change when I drink, that I become just very emotionally drained, and just I get very sad when I drink, which I think is funny because it's like I'm sad because I'm drinking, and then I drink because I'm sad. It was just this terrible cycle. Um, this this really bad feedback loop that I had.

So we had been living together for about a year, and she wants to do couples therapy because things aren't going well. And of course, I I agree. I don't have I don't really have too much of a problem with it because I have this again, this like resilience. I have this perception of myself that I am still drinking like normal, like a normal person, that only go out and have a good time with my friends or her friends.

I I feel like I'm the life of the party because I'm always the one enticing people to drink and always buying drinks. But what's really been going on that she's she's kind of been trying to tell me is that I'm not the life of the party, that I'm just dragging people down because of how much I'm drinking, that it looks sad. So, you know, there's this complicated, I it's well it's not complicated, but this this two-sided coin of me thinking it's fun and it looks great, and then her perception is it's terrible and it looks bad. And I don't see that because I'm so wrapped in myself that it just doesn't look that way to me.

So we start couples therapy, and you know, that's one of the main topics she brings up almost right away. And I I almost felt a little betrayed because I'm like, well, why would you say that? Like, I didn't think it was a big deal, and she's like, I've been trying to tell you that this has been a big deal. Something I didn't mention is, yeah, she's a normie, and she she hardly drinks at all.

It would be like one drink when she goes out, which to me, of course, was baffling. Like, how how are you only doing that? How are you only drinking that little? We do couples therapy, and of course, I try to do suggested from the therapist.

Um, I try to limit myself when I go out. Okay, I I will only have four drinks, and that's it. So I try to kind of do that for a little bit, and sure, it it it quote unquote works. Sure.

I can I can do that for a while, but after you know, just a couple weeks or a couple months, I'm just kind of I feel, you know, I'm like, I'm like twitching every time we go out, like I can only have four, like I have to pick them, I have to pick the right ones so I can get the most drunk off those four drinks. And I had to strategize how to do this. So I just started sneaking drinks when she wasn't looking, and I would have alcohol at the house before we would go out, so I would sneak drinks before then, and and it really started to click with me like, okay, yeah, this is becoming a this is definitely a problem. And I try to try to convince myself that it's not, and it's just it's just hard.

My my brain was just pulling me every which direction. From the therapist's suggestion, okay, just don't drink for a month. How about that? Okay, sure, I can do that.

Because in my head, I just say, Okay, it's one month, that's fine. I'll I'll prove that I'm not an alcoholic by not drinking for a month and then I'll just I'll drink again after, of course. That that classic tale. So everything's cool.

I feel a little bit better, but at the same time My brain is it's going into overdrive because I had no program. I wasn't I wasn't in AA at this time. So at the end of the month, it just gets worse. And it comes to a point where, again, without doing a drunk log, I'll just I'll just say like the last night I drank, she had gone out with some friends.

So I said, Great, I'm gonna do whatever I want. And I just went off the rails. She came home and I was already blacked out at that point. So I really have no recollection of what had happened.

I woke up the next day and thought everything was fine because I had no, I really had no memory of that night before. I thought everything was cool, but she's just like, I can't do this anymore. You need to get help. And so that's when it was, I guess, a mini intervention of one.

And I I knew that I had hit the point too of okay, I can't I can't do this and make people unhappy in my life. Because I I really am a people pleaser. And I think that's also part of my my alcoholism, where I will do things to make people happy to a fault of putting pressure on myself, and the only way to alleviate that pressure was to drink. That I felt so wound up to a point of the only release that I had was drinking and forgetting about what I had to do for other people as well as myself.

I know that kind of contradicts what I had said about being so wrapped up in myself, but part of that was still being a people pleaser and being, you know, I I just wanted to be cool to a point of being the life of a party, of always always being that guy that was having a good time and not bringing other people down. Yeah, I have this kind of mini intervention, and very luckily, and I'm so grateful, she knew someone that was in the program and reached out to them, and she told me, Hey, this guy's gonna text you, maybe give you a call, and I just really hope that you listen to him. So this this guy gives me a call, and he just kind of says, you know, what's going on, and I I kind of just tell him, I'm just I am really struggling, I don't really know what's going on in my life, and I'm just unhappy, and I just find that drinking is the only thing that kind of helps. And he's you know, says, Okay, let's let's go, let's go to this meeting.

And it was on Zoom, so I am one of those Zoom babies, got sober on Zoom, but that was my my first AA meeting, and it was really tough because I knew I had a problem, and I wasn't sure how to admit it, but the rooms of AA have changed my life in such a positive way that I can be so much more open about how I'm feeling while still caring for other people and being able to be the people pleaser that I am. I can do that at the same time. As hard as that is to balance, it's something that I work on consistently. But yeah, back to that, he brought me into the rooms, and honestly, I I think I cried for about 45 minutes of that hour meeting.

It was just so emotionally overwhelming hearing other people talk about their struggles with alcohol and the solution and how much better their lives have gotten. Even people that have been extremely successful in life and have made great relationships and been successful in business, and still had problems with alcohol because it is so cunning and baffling and powerful. That I immediately wanted what they had. And I feel so extremely lucky that I had that entire psychic change that's talked about in the book pretty much right away.

That I knew that alcohol would not lead me anywhere good. So I I dove headfirst and got right involved with the program. And I'm just I'm really grateful for that group that I'm still a part of almost two years or over two years later. There are three or four guys in that group with over 30 years of sobriety.

They, you know, they talk about the change from when they got sober that it was you sit down and shut up and listen, and how that's changed to yeah, you should listen, but also we need to hear from you, even if you're a newcomer. One of the guys that has now 38 years, uh, so about 36 years at the time, he called me like right after that first meeting that I was in and was just so embracing and inclusive and said, You can do this, just don't drink this weekend. So the meeting is on Fridays and Mondays. So I went that Friday, and he's like, just come back Monday, see how you're feeling.

And I did that. And then he called me after that meeting on Monday and said, Okay, what meeting are you going to tomorrow? And I was kind of confused, like, what do you mean tomorrow? I just I thought it's just Monday and Friday.

And he's like, No, you need to go to a meeting every day. So that's when I started 90 and 90. And I did I did probably close to 100 meetings in 90 days just because I I knew that this program would do nothing but help me. And I've learned that everyone in the program just wants to help each other out, and I love that so much because obviously I had no idea what the program was about.

I thought it was just kind of you go in, you fix your problems, and then you leave, but it's so much more involved in that, and you get involved in other people's lives. The the we program, the we aspect of this has been such a game changer for me. And staying in the middle of the herd, you know, all these phrases that I hear now and I say are so true because I've seen people that don't stay in the middle and they get picked off, and it's hard. And as much as you try to reach out and help, it it just if they don't want it, they just don't get it.

And that's it's it's so hard to see, but it it happens. Since coming into the program, I've just I've had this perception change that I see things in just so much more of a positive aspect. And even though I still have that analytical brain and I I overcomplicate things to a fault, I find my life is so much more manageable because I've worked through the steps and just I've been able to just kind of completely overhaul how my brain thinks, in a sense, where I don't lose my sense of self, but I still I still just have such a better outlook on life. And I just my my reactivity is so much more different that I don't I don't overreact as much.

And I'm able to take a pause and and just think and breathe and not get overwhelmed as much. It still happens, but I'm I don't get overwhelmed as much uh with with such small things in my life. I've heard so many great things in in just the two years that I've been here, and one of the biggest things that I've heard that just rings true so much is that this problem of alcoholism is so much bigger than myself. You know, I tried to do it by myself, I tried to solve it, I tried to limit myself, I tried to stop for a while, but this problem is so much bigger than myself that I could not solve it by myself.

I need something bigger than myself to help solve it. And that is you know, my higher power. That is steps two and three of accepting the higher power and understanding that I don't have control of the majority of the vast majority of things in my life that I have to give it over to a power greater than myself. And I struggled with that because I I didn't want that, you know, I wanted to be in control.

So once I was able to do that and really work through that, my life has become so much more manageable because I understand that I don't have to control everything because I can't. And so allowing myself, allowing my my mind to kind of give things over to a higher power has given such ease to my life. And it's it's not that my life is easy, but I just feel so much more relaxed that I know things are gonna work out because I trust in a higher power. I I find that it's given me this sense of stoicism that I can allow things to happen without them affecting me as heavily.

Yeah, just I think that's that's kind of like the main point of manageability for me is not allowing things to control me, but allowing myself to go with the flow of the universe. And I know that's I've kind of gone off into like spirituality more, but I I do want to bring it back to the program itself and how involved I I have become in the last, even just the last year, I I tried to get commitments right away, but a lot of them are you know are six-month requirements or um you know, different groups have different requirements, but I took commitments right away. And at one point I I had five commitments a week, one every night, Monday through Friday. And um, it was amazing.

And you know, life happens. I had to kind of back some off and not renew them, but I stay involved still. I secretary two meetings a week, and then I have a commitment at another one. So I I stay really active and something I've heard anything you put before sobriety is going to be the first thing that you lose.

So I always keep sobriety first in my life, which has been um I don't want to say that it's been difficult, but it's it's it's just led to other things falling down by the wayside, which is which is hard, but it's worth it because my if my sobriety stays first and I I grow and progress, then the rest of my life kind of falls in place. And that again goes back to the second and third steps of trusting in my higher power. I know if I do the work and stay involved, that the rest of my life will be okay. Something I've heard again, I I know I keep saying that because I just I love I love listening and hearing what other people have to say, which is why talking this long is kind of tough for me because I I love listening.

But I I heard that part-time employees don't get full-time benefits. If you want the full benefits of this program and to see the promises come true, you have to work at it full-time, you have to work at it every day as much as you can. And some days it sounds tough, but then I just think how many how many hours did I put in a day drinking? You know, several.

So if I can only put one hour to go to a meeting and then maybe another hour talking to other alcoholics, that that should be more than enough. And some days it's not, and some days it is. But I have to do at least two hours a day every day to keep up with my sobriety. And that and that includes going to a meeting, talking to other alcoholics, or just reading the book.

I go back and read the book kind of just for fun. I keep it right by my laptop. And, you know, after a meeting, after I sign off, I'll sometimes just open it and just flip to a random page and just read a couple pages because I just love how no matter where you are in life, you can always just go back to that book and find something that really points to you. Or um yeah, just kind of points out what's going on.

Yeah, to wrap up, I am just so grateful for this program, for the opportunities it's given me, and I'm so grateful to see how my life has grown. My friends have consistently pointed out how much better and happier I look in the two years, and how much I've changed, but I'm still myself, which is something I was really worried about. I was worried that I was gonna become this completely different person, that I was gonna become some woo-woo person that just talked about spirituality all the time, which is kind of true. I do a little bit more, but in a good way, you know, and that's the the program kind of speaking through me that you don't have to be this kind of odd person, but you can just be yourself and have this little attachment to the program.

And I'm really grateful that I can do opportunities like this and just talk about my story in the hopes that it it you know reaches someone and helps them, because that's that's you know the big part of my sobriety that I I love helping other people and just reaching out and pulling people in the middle and and showing people that sobriety is an amazing way of life, that that we don't have to we don't have to drink anymore, and we don't have to hurt, and we don't have to suffer from this disease, that we can help each other out, and we can make our lives manageable through this program. I think that's I think that's where I want to end. SPEAKER_00 39:43 Thank you, Jeff. It was a lovely, it was a lovely ending.

I loved, I don't know, all of it, but when you were kind of I wouldn't think you were wrapping up, but at some point you talked about you began talking about how much more manageable your life is today because of the steps, and then all of that detail after was so I don't know, um you just very hopeful. Everything that you said was just came through with a lot of hope. You use the word reactivity. My reactivity is better today.

I'm like, is that a word? That's a really good word. Um but but that that was all very um relatable, you know, just your chat about the way you react to the world and how you know not having to control everything and allowing yourself to go with the flow. And I think you called it like a spiritual tangent or something, but I thought it was really well delivered.

Period. Thank you. I kept going on about how much I liked it, but it was just very, I don't know, calming. Yeah.

I would say my reaction to you explaining that whole how life feels and how you see the world and your perception change and all that was just very calming to me. It's like, oh yeah, that is the result we get when we do this thing like a full-time job, which is so easy to stop doing. So you're 30, 31. SPEAKER_01 41:20 I just turned 33, actually.

SPEAKER_00 41:22 Okay, so I'm a little bit off on my years here. Okay, so you're 33. Um, it's hard once you I see why so many people, my aha moment was yeah, that's why people stop doing it like a full-time job because they get the things in their life. They get the wife, they get the kids, they get the you know, extra coaching the kids soccer thing.

And then, you know, like life gets so big and we get so far away from when we used to drink all day that we're like, I'm not that person anymore, so I don't need the program as much as I did when I first got here. Now I have all these other responsibilities that are really important, don't you know? I have to support this whole family. Then we start treating AA like a part-time job, and I feel like there's more people in my circle that treat it like a part-time job than a full-time job.

So I appreciate everything that you shared. It reminded me of why we go and listen. Um yeah. I do have questions though.

That was a really big rant. Okay. SPEAKER_01 42:26 Yeah. SPEAKER_00 42:26 Do you have any commentary on my ranting?

No. Okay. SPEAKER_01 42:30 No, thank you. SPEAKER_00 42:32 All right.

Well, off of the rant though, you mentioned being math and science acumen, or I don't know how to explain that in a fancy word, but essentially you lean left side brain, I think. I'm not sure. SPEAKER_01 42:48 Yeah, I don't know. I always forget which one it is.

Yeah. SPEAKER_00 42:50 I got 50-50 shot. So did that pose any sort of contradiction or challenges in your mind when you came up against step two, three, and the word God? SPEAKER_01 43:06 Yeah, and that's that's something I I did leave out.

I was raised as Christian and I was sent through Christian elementary school. So I was really forced with God in my younger years. And it's not that I really rejected it, it's just I kind of left it as more agnostic, I would say, through my 20s and such. And being, yeah, definitely being more science and math um attuned that you know, there is always that kind of question is how does any of this happen versus you know the teachings of the Bible?

So now my higher power, I call God. But it is, you know, it's not the the Christian idea of God. And that's what I love that I've learned is, you know, your higher power can be anything, right? It doesn't have to be the Christian God.

It doesn't have to be any religious God figure. It could be, you know, anything, right? I've heard the ocean is a great one. It could be for a while for me, even coming into the program, it was God, group of drunks.

It was, it was other people in the program that I kind of relied on. Like I mentioned, some of the long timers in the Zoom groups I was in. Um, so I I don't think there was any real issue with that once I realized that it didn't have to be that religious God. That even though the the book obviously says God a lot, I was I was taught in the program that it doesn't have to be that God.

It can be, and it says that, right? God of our own understanding. So I took that as my higher power is what I understand it to be. And that again is why I I did kind of have struggle with the third step in that sense too, of it, you know, what is my higher power?

But once you have that moment of, okay, I have to, I have to just make my higher power whatever I need it to be, that I can be comfortable with and I understand it, um, it became so much easier for me to to grow and have connection with that higher power. SPEAKER_00 45:50 Yeah, I really liked the open-mindedness that comes with the whole topic in the rooms and in the book, because they there's different terms used for you know, spirit of the universe, I think is one of them, something of that. I remember when I came and I struggled. I circled all those alternative words to God throughout the book.

There's a hand, I don't know, maybe three or four of them. Um and I and I keep that open-mindedness. Actually, I I read some clickbait on uh like there's no big bang, aliens created us. And and I thought, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

That totally makes sense. I can totally get down with that. So I'm able to entertain anything. There's not a set of beliefs that it's I am certain this is the way it is, and I'm I'm not going outside of these set.

There's questions and answers to all of the things under this umbrella, and I go with that QA only. Um, we're going through a Star Wars. The family's watching all the Star Wars, I'd not see any of them. And I'm like, my new higher power is the force.

That makes so much sense. Anyways. Your parents. Do you have siblings?

And how your parents or anybody in your family, are you the first to be in the program? Are they coming along for the ride? You said your parents probably drink less now that you're in program. How does that how does that look?

SPEAKER_01 47:28 Yeah, so I have an older brother who's a normie. And yeah, my my parents, my parents are are still, yeah, they're great, and they are they're not really involved in my sobriety as much, but they do ask, you know, consistently, like, hey, are you going to your meetings? How's it going? Is that good?

And I shared with them when I when I hit two years, I, you know, just said thanks to them because, you know, I feel support from them for that. I I feel the love they give me, even though if it's if it's not really super obvious, it's just kind of how my parents are. They they're also very kind of stoic and quiet. But yeah, as much as our relationship had tarnished during COVID when I was home drinking so much, it's definitely been repaired, and there's so much more trust now.

And my my brother's the same way. Obviously, he still drinks, he's a normie, so he doesn't he doesn't have any issue with it. But he sees a difference too. And it is just kind of funny because my parents don't drink that much.

Uh, whenever they do, they kind of I I can see they kind of feel weird about it. Um, it's just kind of funny. A little quick story. I went to uh I'm I'm born and raised in Orange County, but we're we're Dodger fans.

So my yeah, sorry. So my my dad and I went to a Dodger game and he got a beer and I was like, yeah, like he kind of like asked me, like, is that okay? And I was like, Yeah, dad, there's like there's 45,000 other people that are drinking here, like it's it's okay. And we actually ran into another guy in the program that I know pretty well, and so I said, Hi, like, what's up?

And I introduced him to my dad, and I told my dad after, like, oh yeah, it's a you know, friend in the program, and my dad was like, Oh no, I was holding a beer, oh no, and I was like, Dad, it's it's okay. Like, like we have to, you know, we have to learn again. That's that's kind of like the the perception and like that reaction that I was talking about of not not being not being so affected by what other people are doing. So um, but yeah, to answer your question, I I guess I'm the first in like my my like more personal close family, but I I do have some I do have like two other family members in the program, but they're a little bit estranged just because of ties with my parents.

So um it is kind of hard for me to talk to them just because sometimes like you know that family issues will come up and it's just kind of hard. So but yeah, there's not a long there's not a long history of alcoholism in my family, so I guess I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. SPEAKER_00 50:42 Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, there's always some family drama or challenges. Relationships are so hard, and then you get the whole family dynamics, and yeah. You had mentioned your life becoming so much more manageable after doing the steps, or you attributed them because of doing the steps.

Do you want to share for anybody new? Like, how does doing the steps contribute to a more manageable life? And there's so many ways to answer this because there's like 12 steps, but just whatever comes to mind as an answer to the question of how do the steps make your life more manageable? SPEAKER_01 51:29 Yeah, that is a great question.

I always found it so interesting that the only step that mentions alcohol is the first step. All the all other 11 steps don't really talk about alcohol in the in you know in the physical sense. So the steps themselves really just kind of take the parts of my life that were I don't want to just say bad because you know we all have flaws, but they really took the parts of my life that were holding me back from progressing as a as a as an individual who is emotionally intelligent and is able to really just be more wholesome, I think is the best way to just kind of sum it up. The the steps really kind of alleviate uh any real detriment to your character.

Uh and it's uh it's hard to kind of just say that, right? Because it doesn't make you a per they don't make you a perfect person, no, because no one is perfect. Uh but as far as manageability, uh the steps really teach us how to make our lives more manageable because I think they really teach us how to react differently and how to make our relationships with other people more amicable and not allow relationships with other people to become so tarnished so quickly and to get out of hand. The steps really I think as a whole just give us this sense of calm and I don't know where I'm going with this, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 53:46 No, you did good. You did good. It there's no right or wrong answer. And you made clear the sense of calm that it's brought to your life.

You talked about actually your first drink. You used the same term. You said that you were off to the races and that the drinking gave you a sense of calm and relaxation. So it sounds like you've the steps are providing that same relief.

SPEAKER_01 54:18 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. SPEAKER_00 54:21 Do you do in-person meetings or exclusively Zoom meetings? What does your program look like today?

You did talk about the number of meetings per week, but what what form? And in terms of your actual like practice of step 11, what does that look like in real life? SPEAKER_01 54:41 Yeah, so that was something else I didn't, I I kind of failed to mention. I I always struggle with especially even long form sharing.

I feel like I still leave out so much because I'll kind of get wrapped up in one specific part of my story and kind of forget details that I I like to point out. But yeah, so I I do both. I do Zoom meetings still and I go to in-person meetings. But the in-person meetings were definitely a struggle for me at first because I was just so nervous about introducing myself to people that I struggled to meet people.

And I would sit in the back, and as soon as the meeting was over, I would just bolt out and just leave as soon as I could. And I talked to my sponsor about it, and he said, you know, everyone in that room has something in common with you, that you're all alcoholics. And so there's no reason to be afraid to just say, Hi, I'm an alcoholic, and just start talking to them. How long do you how long have you been sober?

How many meetings do you go to? And that made it so much more easy for me to make friends. And you know, again, it became so much easier for me to just go and and talk to new people. And now I feel like I'm really in the middle, right?

That's that's something we talk about of staying in the middle of the herd and becoming involved. And so I go to two in-person meetings, and they're they're in the same meeting hall on different days. So there's a lot of people that go to both. So I like to stay really involved, and um, they do a lot of events.

I I don't go to all of them just because you know life happens, but it's it's awesome to to fellowship after. And that's I I think I prefer the in-person now, but I still love the Zoom meeting also just because of the convenience, because there are people all over the country and even in Canada that are on it. And it's it's just awesome to to talk to people that are thousands of miles away. So I I love I love both for different reasons.

So I stay involved in both very actively. And I I I love that about this program where it can, you know, it's really worldwide, and it's it's just amazing how we all have the same common problem, but we also have the solution in the rooms and we can just talk about it, you know, whenever. So I I I just love that. SPEAKER_00 57:34 I do love that.

I do love how you said both of those back to back. Like we do all have the common problem and we have this common solution, which I found out recently that it's somebody I've known for years that I work with is in the program. I had no idea. And immediately I liked her more.

I'm like, oh, I like her even more now. It means she and I know she's active. So I'm like, oh, so she she and I share a set of values and a set of prioritizing service in our life and a higher power and becoming, you know, better people, better people for society. That's I mean, I feel like that's my program, and that's how I perceive the people in my circle is these same set of values and prioritize and make our decisions on how we spend our time according to those values.

I I like the values of the program and the steps. SPEAKER_01 58:29 So yeah. SPEAKER_00 58:30 Yeah. I I liked all of that.

Your share was lovely. I have two final questions. Um, if there's anything that you left out or that you're thinking of, now is the time to share. You can pause and see if anything comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 58:48 Yeah, I mean, like I said, I I feel like I get wrapped up in like one specific part of my story, but I feel good. I feel like I left it as it should be. Perfect. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:04 All right. Then we come to our final question. For the listener who is suffering, what message would you like to leave them with? SPEAKER_01 59:15 Hope.

Yeah, I think you even said that. Is the the hope that if you work at the program and you and you listen and you act, your life will become manageable, that your life will gain this this sense of ease that I've gained and calm and serenity. You know, you're struggling or suffering that you don't have to, that even though drinking doesn't seem like an option of something you can take off the table, it is. And it's something that I didn't think was possible, that I couldn't live my life without it, but I can.

And it's it's the greatest feeling in the world that I don't have that I don't have to be tied down by alcohol, that I have power over it because I've worked the steps and I work with other alcoholics and I just talk to other alcoholics and I act on my sobriety and work at it. Because you don't graduate from the program, right? I I know people who have long-term sobriety, 30 plus years, and they say it's every day that you have to you have to do it, but it's worth it. SPEAKER_00 1:00:56 For more information, read the first 164 pages of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, or visit keepcoming back.net.